What are the most common methods?

Username: YYL
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 rhecht
YYL wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:22 am
rhecht wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:22 am

Love the visual. So that effectively makes the first and last Chulyas 5 winds each?









 
The first and last Chulyas are only 3 winds, the white at the beginning and the end is not part of the Chulyas its an extra add-on for the extra word in the posuk הכנף מין כנף - הכנף as explained in Rashi.  The reason I did 2 winds instead of 1 is because I wanted to have in total more white then blue. 








 
Speaking about Min Kanaf, that was just discussed in Daf Yomi, Nazir 58a. What source says that the min kanaf can be independent of any single Chulya?

Also, I "get" the obsession of 7 chulyos being 7 heavens, but there's a larger matter with Maalin B'Kodesh V'Ain Moridin. If one alternates chulyos colors, white represents Rachamim and Techeiles represents Din. So we want Rachamim to win against Din and more white Chulyos achieve that. We see this is Kabbala and Chassidus in everything, from putting on the right shoe before the left, and among Chassidim to have shirts/jackets specially made so that the right crosses over the left. That doesn't mean one shouldn't wear Techeiles at all though.
 
 
In ספר מצוות גדול מצות עשה כ״ו it says that when there was techeles they would do the techeles for the heavens and the white for the space between the heavens. The ילקוט מפרשים על הסמ"ג,  מגליונות דפוס רומא (מכון שלמה אומן שעלבים תשפ"ב) 
asks if you do 7 techeles then you will not begin and end with white? He concludes that the min kanaf is independent of the Chulya.

True that white represents Rachamim and Techeiles represents Din, but the whole unit of 13 chulyas, represent the 13 Midos shel Rachamim as it says in בית יוסף אורח חיים י״א: כ״ג:  and  רעיא מהימנא פרשת פנחס דף רכ''ח ע''א:
 
 
 
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YYL wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:22 am
 
 rhecht
YYL wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:22 am
The first and last Chulyas are only 3 winds, the white at the beginning and the end is not part of the Chulyas its an extra add-on for the extra word in the posuk הכנף מין כנף - הכנף as explained in Rashi.  The reason I did 2 winds instead of 1 is because I wanted to have in total more white then blue. 









 
Speaking about Min Kanaf, that was just discussed in Daf Yomi, Nazir 58a. What source says that the min kanaf can be independent of any single Chulya?

Also, I "get" the obsession of 7 chulyos being 7 heavens, but there's a larger matter with Maalin B'Kodesh V'Ain Moridin. If one alternates chulyos colors, white represents Rachamim and Techeiles represents Din. So we want Rachamim to win against Din and more white Chulyos achieve that. We see this is Kabbala and Chassidus in everything, from putting on the right shoe before the left, and among Chassidim to have shirts/jackets specially made so that the right crosses over the left. That doesn't mean one shouldn't wear Techeiles at all though.
 
 
In ספר מצוות גדול מצות עשה כ״ו it says that when there was techeles they would do the techeles for the heavens and the white for the space between the heavens. The ילקוט מפרשים על הסמ"ג,  מגליונות דפוס רומא (מכון שלמה אומן שעלבים תשפ"ב) 
asks if you do 7 techeles then you will not begin and end with white? He concludes that the min kanaf is independent of the Chulya.

True that white represents Rachamim and Techeiles represents Din, but the whole unit of 13 chulyas, represent the 13 Midos shel Rachamim as it says in בית יוסף אורח חיים י״א: כ״ג:  and  רעיא מהימנא פרשת פנחס דף רכ''ח ע''א:
 
 
 

 
I hear. Tzarich Iyun on that. The reality is that there are literally dozens of opinions on how to tie Techeiles so one won't have a clear consensus. But at the same time we need to realize that while Techeiles is similar to the Yam, then the Rakia, etc.:

a) One would be hard pressed to definitively say it only pertains to color. R' Meir's Braisa (https://porphyrology.com/view-doctorate ... et-colour/) has 8 different versions and not everything has to do with color, since the sun, trees, grass, moon and rainbow aren't "blue" even if one wants to kvetch that there's a hint of blue in them. And the sea itself: water is inherently clear and the general consensus is that the blue of the sea is a reflection of the blue sky. One gets aquamarine when the blue sky mixes with the yellowish sand to give off that illusion, but anyway. It refers to concepts, going from the finite to the infinite with this blue thread.

b) 7-13 means either 7 heavens or 7 heavens and 6 firmaments, but one can have other symbolism as well. I've heard that some Yemenites do 10 chulyos for 10 commandments, so it literally is a "numbers game" and not tied into color. Also, there are tying methods like the Baal HaIttur and Tosafos classic which have only 7 chulyos, and alternating blue and white, so one ends up with 3 blue 4 white. The whole concept of 7 no longer applies there.

c) Some would suggest consistency, if white should be a standalone chulya or standalone wind, but not mixing and matching. As per a) and b) if one understands the chulyos to be concepts and not directly tied into color, the 6 blue 7 white makes more sense.
 
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The most common methods I've seen so far appear to be either, 1.) Gra method for those using Raavad 2/8 strings ratio, and 2.) Rambam for those using Rambam 1/8 ratio.

The Sefer HaChinuch and Gra methods look similar from a distance so it's hard to be sure. But my assumption is that many wearing Raavad ratio are doing so to follow the Gra.

I haven't noticed many wearing Tosafos 4/8. So not sure what tying method they use. I assume it's more varied that Raavad/Rambam. 

It seems to me that if someone's wearing 1/8, it makes more sense to tie according to the Rambam (or another method that doesn't alternate wrapping colors), since the primary function of techeiles (according to that string ratio) is the wrapping string. Whereas according to the Raavad ratio, an alternating method is more the norm.

I've seen some doing the same or similar to standard white tzitzis method. Which I assume is either the standard method or Radzyn.
 
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